GorJess27
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Did you go there? My family is from Cuba.
6/26/2004 8:15:02 PM
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GabePR
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I just got back about three weeks ago...it was pretty cool cause I got to meet my cousin in Habana.
6/26/2004 8:16:34 PM
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GorJess27
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That's cool. I would love to go down and visit my family that I have never even met before. I think it would be a great learning experience.
6/26/2004 8:31:07 PM
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GabePR
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I learned so much about Cuba. There's a lot of misconceptions here in the U.S. about Cuba. Are your parents from Cuba?
6/26/2004 8:33:25 PM
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GorJess27
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My dad is and his whole family. My mom's mom is, too. So I'm about 75% Cuban.
6/26/2004 8:36:07 PM
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GabePR
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Nice! My dad is from Puerto Rico. My mom was born in Habana but moved to Puerto Rico when she was 5 years old and all her family is from Cuba. When I was in Habana I stayed at the house where my mom was born. Her cousin still lives there with his family.
6/26/2004 8:39:55 PM
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GorJess27
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Cool! Yeah, my grandparents try to go down there at least every two years to visit family, so hopefully I will get to go with them soon. I see pictures all the time, but I want to see everything for myself.
6/26/2004 8:49:07 PM
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GabePR
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Thanks to Bush it's going to be really difficult to go to Cuba. You can only go if you have immediate family living there, like brothers or sisters or parents. Also, you can only go once every three years if you do have family. My aunt is going to Habana to visit her son in about a month but she's having a lot of problems getting her visa. Bush sucks.
6/26/2004 8:56:50 PM
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GorJess27
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Yeah, I just recently heard about this. My grandparents are really upset because they were planning a trip for next year, but now they can't go because they just went this past year. They were really looking forward to going because their parents are very sick and old and it might be the last time they will ever get to see them. It really sucks and I don't understand why it was made into a law.
6/26/2004 9:54:10 PM
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GabePR
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It's Bush's new foreign policy on Cuba. He wants to cut off Fidel from all the American dollars going into Cuba from relatives that go visit their family and send them money. He doesn't realize that he's only hurting the Cuban population. My parents are really upset because they were planning on going to Cuba this year but because of these new laws they can't go. By the way, do you speak Spanish?
6/26/2004 10:20:41 PM
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HairyBearChaos
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i want to visit when castro dies.
my mom's from la habana but my dad's from jamaica [the city]
6/27/2004 12:32:26 AM
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GabePR
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true...I want to go back asap. I might go with my friend who's going during christmas.
6/27/2004 12:35:58 AM
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HairyBearChaos
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i wish i could go. 
6/27/2004 12:49:58 AM
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GabePR
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You can go to mexico and take a plane from there to Cuba. But don't tell anyone cause it's very illegal. I think they fine you like $50,000 if they find out.
6/27/2004 1:13:32 AM
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HairyBearChaos
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or you could get a special student visa through the university and go.
6/27/2004 1:21:32 AM
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GabePR
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that too, but they're really limiting the amount of americans that can go to Cuba because of Bush's new restrictions.
6/27/2004 1:31:27 AM
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USFangel
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I want to go when Castro falls too...yeah I heard about the law too, he thinks he's helping but he has no idea how much damage he's doing. You're right there are a lot of misconceptions about Cuba here in the US. My whole family is Cuban, but I wasn't born there, I would LOVE to go see where my family is from, and my family that is still there, you're lucky that you got to go!
6/30/2004 10:06:42 PM
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GabePR
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I know. This has been the best trip I've taken in my life. What part of Cuba is your family from? When did they come to the U.S.?
6/30/2004 10:18:17 PM
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ATLDrtybird7
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When the fuck is Castro gonna die? How old is he anyway? The poor rep Cuba has amongst America is because of Che Guevara and his spearheading the Cuban Missile Crisis... (btw, I can not for the life of me understand why people wear shirts with his face on it... can anyone shed some light on that issue, I don't exactly see how what he did and stood for is worth so much praise and respect, he deserves none... as far as America goes anyway...)
[Edited by ATLDrtybird7 on 6/30/2004 6:43:00 PM. Reason for edit: .]
6/30/2004 11:42:06 PM
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GabePR
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He was an outstanding revolutionary General. His war tactics have been used in countries all over the world. For example, in Cuba, on December 1958, him and 22 soldiers defeated Batista's 408 troops in Santa Clara. This is what ended Batista's dictatorship. I don't agree with Che's political views but I do agree that he is a great "Comandante."
6/30/2004 11:56:15 PM
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ATLDrtybird7
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Yeah, well so was Erwin Rommel, but it would be rude, crude, and socially unacceptable for me to wear a Rommel shirt. On top of that, considering Guverra's involvement with the Red Army and the whole missile ordeal, I do not consider him so great...
6/30/2004 11:59:02 PM
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GabePR
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I don't know if you realized that Che wasn't too fond of the United States. His main reason being exactly what the U.S. is best known for, overthrowing other countries' governments, specially in Latin America. That's why he advocated nuclear confrontation against the U.S.
7/1/2004 12:18:56 AM
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ATLDrtybird7
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I realize that all too well. My question is why is he being glorified for such? One leader gets chastized for advocating war, where another is glorified for wanting to nuke an entire country... it makes no sense to me... The crazy thing is that all this is going on in the exact same country. He didn't like the U.S., most of the U.S. did not like Saddam... it seems a little hypocritical and inconsistant to me... would I be wrong?
7/1/2004 12:22:48 AM
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GabePR
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The U.S. invaded Cuba first before the Cuban Missile Crisis so, once again, the U.S. started it. The Cuban rebel army was doing fine fighting against the Spanish. As a matter of fact, they were going to win their independence from Spain without the help of the U.S. All of a sudden the U.S. had sent a ship, the USS Maine, to float in the Habana harbor. The ship blows up so it must be the Spanish army that blew it up. Let's go to war then and take over Cuba without trying to figure out how our ship went down. They fight the already destroyed Spanish army and take over Cuba. So why was Che upset with the U.S.? Maybe because all that they fought for was pointless since they went from being under Spanish control, to being under American control. Hurray for democracy!!!
7/1/2004 12:48:20 AM
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Justferfun
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So that means it's okay to nuke the US?
7/1/2004 12:49:39 AM
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GabePR
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Of course not. I'm not justifying the Cuban Missile Crisis at all. But it wasn't Che's idea in the first place. He was just that upset at what the U.S. had done to his country that he wouldn't mind if the U.S. got nuked.
7/1/2004 12:56:08 AM
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ATLDrtybird7
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From what I understand, Che was the one who went to Russia ans said 'If the Red army trains and supports our troops, we will let you point missiles at the US in Cuba." That is what makes him bad...
7/1/2004 1:10:57 AM
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GabePR
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Where were the Cubans going to go for support, Mexico? The U.S. was not interested in protecting Cuba, it was interested in setting up all it's businesses in Cuba so that they could profit off of the island. They weren't going to treat it as an independent nation. The U.S. has been trying to control the Cuban government since they were freed from Spain. The Cubans wanted to have an army of their own to protect themselves from other nations, like the U.S. for example. All Che wanted was to have a well trained army, if it meant bringing in nuclear weapons from Russia, so be it.
7/1/2004 1:17:50 AM
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ATLDrtybird7
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The US was not interested in protecting Cuba because it was hostile to America. Do not tell me that american business in Cuba would no tbenifit the Cuban economy, if you are saying that, that is a crock of shit. I gotta ask man, If America sucks so hard, why do you chose to live here... I know it is the typical response, but you are so hard core Cuba (not that it is a bad thing... ) it seems odd that you would put yourself through the misery of being here and dealing with such a war like people and country... it must be tough. As far as the nukes go, had the situation been reversed, if the US decided to install nuke silos in Miami aimed at Cuba, and say a very anti-cuban leader was involved, and he was seen by Americans as such a hero... and there was a market in Cuba, and Americans in Cuba were buying up this shit left and right and everywhere you look you see it, it wouldn't upset you a little bit? It is basically saying 'Fuck your Country."
7/1/2004 1:26:42 AM
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Pyromonger
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Hey I'd love to have a Rommel shirt. He was one of the biggest military pimps in history, and a great man to boot.
Of course, you might have to deal with some ignorant rednecks getting upset yer wearin' sum "Nazi t-shirt"...
But not everyone is intelligent enuff to make a distinction b/w a political party and a country's military (we seem to do that here, with the Support the troops/protest the war mantra), or remeber his part in plotting an assasination attempt on hitler.... so I don't think some others thinking it was rude, crude, or unacceptable would bug me much.
Whoops, sorry totally off topic. Meh, I ferget ppl who've never lived outside their county forget they are foreign to the rest of the world .gif)
7/1/2004 1:39:27 AM
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CubanChick222
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I've been there! I was just there last December. It's beautiful! And BTW, the whole law on not being able to go to Cuba for 3 years is RIDICULOUS!!!! I hate CASTRO!!!!
7/1/2004 2:21:06 AM
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ATLDrtybird7
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Yeah, Rommel was a fucking badaass... I want to get a copy of his book. Patton was a beast too... man, those were definately the days of military genious...
7/1/2004 2:26:42 AM
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elm3r
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I'll make it to Cuba one day. Play Habana and rock the house, just like Jaco did during the "Bay of Gigs" invasion: Havana Jam...
...and I can't wait until that cocksucker Castro dies. I want my cigars, damnit! (Romeo 'Y Julieta's, Cedros #2's) That was one of the best parts about taking the cruise I just did: being able to buy those without paying $30/each for 'em...
7/1/2004 2:38:11 AM
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GabePR
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"The US was not interested in protecting Cuba because it was hostile to America."
Do I have to explain to you again why Cuba was hostile to America? What part of the U.S. invading Cuba and controlling it's government did I lose you?
"Do not tell me that american business in Cuba would no tbenifit the Cuban economy, if you are saying that, that is a crock of shit."
Are you talking about before Fidel, when Batista's dictatorship was letting U.S. companies bloom in Cuba? The U.S. government supported Batista's dictatorship, in which he killed and tortured anyone who would run against him. Why? Because Batista let American companies own Cuban land and run every local merchants out of business. The money would be shipping out of Cuba every day and coming into the United States.
Then a brave, intelligent soldier helps Fidel with the revolution against Batista's government. He is just as pissed off at the U.S. for supporting Batista's dictatorship. So I understand why Che would allow Russia to help them train their army.
"it seems odd that you would put yourself through the misery of being here and dealing with such a war like people and country... it must be tough."
I love this country as much as you do, for different reasons though. I don't love this country for it's ability to overthrow a government or go to war with another country. I love it because, unlike Cuba, I am free to think the way I do and express my thoughts without being persecuted.
7/1/2004 3:43:38 AM
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ATLDrtybird7
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So the 'intelligent and brave' Fidel isn't so great after all? Shocking.
7/1/2004 3:50:53 AM
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GabePR
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Not Fidel, you idiot, have you been reading this tread at all? I was talking about Che!!!
7/1/2004 3:52:32 AM
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ATLDrtybird7
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Che was a douchebag. Enemy of the state. Period. That is why he sucks, and he should not be praised here in America...
7/1/2004 8:01:30 AM
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GabePR
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Next time you talk about a historical figure, why don't you read a little about them before you open your mouth. You'll find yourself having a good argument with another person instead of sounding like an ignorant asshole.
7/1/2004 6:57:50 PM
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HairyBearChaos
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why shouldn't people be allowed to admire che and wear things with his image on it, etc?
it is a free country, right? we're allowed to do what we want within reason of the law. that's our right.
[Edited by HairyBearChaos on 7/1/2004 2:12:34 PM. Reason for edit: .]
7/1/2004 7:12:23 PM
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GabePR
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Exactly...and you know I will be walking around campus on the first day of class wearing a shirt with Che's face on it. If anyone has a problem with that, just come talk to me.
7/1/2004 7:19:27 PM
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HairyBearChaos
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haha. i've been wearing my che shirt for the past two days... probably because i passed out last night and never bothered to change before my 10am test this morning.
7/1/2004 7:22:48 PM
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JayXeM
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I would like to goto Cuba some day. Yet NOT while Fidel is in power. As for visiting Cuba and this new fp that Bush has installed i sort of agree with it. Being raised Cuban and having my entire family being from Cuba except acouple cousins in PR its become very clear in reading and knowing people who have visited that Fidel has only destroyed the beautiful country it once was. As for being able to visit its very very apparent to me that all the money that keeps Cuba and Fidels country running is from all the people visiting Cuba. Also taking Latin American Civilizations with Paul Dorsal is was totally apprents of what Cuba was like from his stories from his numerious visits. Che is not to be admired for his revolution but for standing for what he believed him and i respect him for that. As for Fidel he is one who i greatly dislike yet i owe him in the fact that my parents were able to leave and start a new life in America which has been very sucessful.
Do you have any other pictures from Cuba? I would like to see them.
7/4/2004 8:49:10 PM
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GabePR
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Yes I have a little bit over a hundred pictures. I have to say that I don't agree with what Bush is doing because he's just preventing family members from seeing each other. The embargo was a bad idea to begin with and Bush just made it even worse. This embargo is like we're at war against Cuba, for being Communist I guess, even though it's not really Communist anymore. They consider themselves Fidelistas, which is more of a Socialist state. So how is this embargo helping the Cuban population? How is it helping the American population? It's not. Why exactly do we have an embargo against Cuba and not any other Communist country? Because Fidel is an evil dictator that is limiting the resources of the people. Isn't that what the U.S. is doing with the embargo? As for the money coming in from U.S. vistitors, it pales in comparison to the amount of money coming in from other countries all over the world who are able to visit Cuba as many times they want. Cuba's biggest industry right now is tourism, and the only people in the entire world that can't visit Cuba as tourists are Americans. But that's not my major concern. My concern is, for example my aunt who is going to Cuba this summer to visit her son, and can only stay there for 14 days now when she was planning to stay there for at least a month. This is her son that she hasn't seen in 10 years. She has never met his daughter, her granddaughter. After those two weeks are up she's going to have to wait another 3 years to be able to see her son again. For what? So that Bush can continue this 44 year old grudge that the U.S. has against Fidel? Give me a break. Fuck Bush and his stupid fucking embargo.
7/4/2004 9:06:17 PM
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Justferfun
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...two successive acts of Congress, the Cuba Democracy Act of 1992 and the Helms Burton Act of 1996, both signed into law by President Clinton, the U.S. has tightened the blockade against Cuba.
http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/cuba/background/history.html
What's this? Bush isn't the only President in recent years to hate Cuba? Quit the fucking blame game...
I agree that the blockade should be lifted, but as long as Fidel is in power, no one in the US will want to deal with Cuba. After all, he was the closest person in the world to nuke the US (more importantly Tampa [most missiles were afixed on MacDill]). We will be able to see Cuba in our lifetime... So just sit back, and wait for Fidel to die.
7/4/2004 9:21:09 PM
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GabePR
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First of all, the Cuban Missile Crisis was not instigated by Fidel. It was Khrushchev's idea to bring nuclear missiles to Cuba. Fidel was looking out for his country. He was never planning on shooting nuclear weapons to the U.S. because he knew that his little island would not exist if he did. He just wanted several things from the U.S. Lifting the embargo was one of them. The one thing they did get the U.S. to agree was to not invade Cuba again. I don't know if you remember what had happened a year earlier. Wasn't there something called the Bay of Pigs invasion? If you ask me, the U.S. brought it upon themselves to have those nuclear weapons placed in Cuba. Why don't you do some reading before I have to give you the history lesson next time.
"as long as Fidel is in power, no one in the US will want to deal with Cuba."
Are you kidding me? There's so many companies lining up waiting until the U.S. says it's ok to do business with Cuba.
7/4/2004 9:33:10 PM
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Justferfun
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When I refer to the US, I am refering to Politics. Of course money-hungry businesses can't wait to get in there and ravage the country for all it's worth.
Holy shit you're trying to give me a history listen? I know WHY the nukes were pointed dumbass, but that doesn't change the fact that they were pointed. He didn't intend to use them? That's speculation. It may not have been "instigated" by Fidel but he sure was a huge fucking role considering it was his country.
7/4/2004 9:41:47 PM
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GabePR
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So can you explain to me how a country let's say, the size of Cuba, is supposed to defend itself when it's at war with a country the size of the United States?
7/4/2004 9:48:44 PM
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Justferfun
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Dipolmacy.
7/4/2004 9:54:28 PM
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GabePR
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Is that what you call the Bay of Pigs invasion?
7/4/2004 9:56:51 PM
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Justferfun
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That is "Failed Diplomacy"
How did Vietnam defeat the all powerful US when it was so small? The size of the country doesn't matter, a man fighting for pride and honor is more powerful than 20 payed soldiers.
[Edited by Justferfun on 7/4/2004 5:01:53 PM. Reason for edit: []
7/4/2004 10:01:20 PM
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GabePR
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How many Vietnamese died before they won? How many Cubans died before they won? Exactly.
7/4/2004 10:08:17 PM
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Justferfun
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But which country is doing better now? Exactly.
7/4/2004 11:44:32 PM
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GabePR
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Maybe it has something to do with a BTA that the U.S. has with Vietnam? Hmmm...I wonder.
7/5/2004 12:00:36 AM
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ATLDrtybird7
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YEAH!!! Damn americans, they are the cause for the failure of every other counrty's economy. Bastards....
7/5/2004 12:06:29 AM
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GabePR
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Not every other country. Just the ones where they try to overthrow their governments.
7/5/2004 12:09:01 AM
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Justferfun
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Germany.
7/5/2004 12:25:18 AM
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ATLDrtybird7
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heh.
7/5/2004 12:28:56 AM
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Justferfun
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We "overthrew" their government after WWII and they seem to be doing just fine, even while paying reparations for both WWI and WWII.
7/5/2004 12:29:45 AM
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ATLDrtybird7
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Yeah, I doubt that we will ever have another problem with Germany. I think they may have learned their lesson. Finally.
7/5/2004 12:35:54 AM
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Justferfun
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hehe.
7/5/2004 12:37:22 AM
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GabePR
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I was talking mostly about Latin American countries.
7/5/2004 3:05:06 AM
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Justferfun
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So now we will limit what can and can not be added to your broad list of countries so that you can prove your point?
7/5/2004 3:07:59 AM
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GabePR
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Let me give you some examples of U.S. foreign policy:
1953-US overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. They support Shah as the new dictator.
1954-US organizes a coup to overthrow democratically-elected President Jacobo Arbenz of Guatemala because they labeled him a communist. This goes to show you that if the US can't make money in your country, they'll try to overthrow the government. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed because of this.
1963-the US backs the assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
1973-US stages coup in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet is installed. The result, 5,000 Chileans murdered, among other things.
1977-US backs military rulers of El Salvador. Around 70,000 Salvadorans are killed.
1980s-U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow Muslim terrorists to kill Soviet soldiers. CIA gives them $3 billion.
1981-Reagan administration trains and funds Contras to fight communist government. 30,000 Nicaraguans die.
1982-U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.
1983-The White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.
1989-CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as president of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega.
1990-Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
1991-U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
1998-U.S. bombs “weapons factory” in Sudan. The factory turns out to be making aspirin.
1991-making of the film: U.S. planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. The United Nations estimates that 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.
2000-2001: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in aid.
[Edited by GabePR on 7/5/2004 3:39:13 PM. Reason for edit: .]
7/5/2004 3:53:52 AM
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GabePR
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One word, karma.
7/5/2004 8:42:13 PM
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Justferfun
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Whether or not it is bad karma or good solely rests on teh people in those countries. The governments have to have some internal backing to remain stable. Money can not buy obedience. Just like you would expect the US Military not to fire onto it's own people. Yes the US has fucked up a few countries during the Cold War, and will fuck up a few more during the Terror War. It's unfortunate but shit happens, and neither of us are going to change that fact for quite a few years...
7/5/2004 9:01:35 PM
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GabePR
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This doesn't justify what they have done, but it explains why most of the world hates the U.S. It also makes sense when we get attacked by another country, why it is that we're getting attacked.
7/5/2004 9:16:19 PM
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.