raginghefer24
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ew!
10/4/2004 6:46:37 PM
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USFbootyGiRL
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I'm not against aboriton completely, but 24 weeks is way too late, and women should not be allowed to have abortions after 8-12 weeks of being pregnant.
10/4/2004 7:14:33 PM
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nathansym
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Because that is when life begins?
10/4/2004 7:15:30 PM
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sundoll-arwhore
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What is the difference between 8-12 weeks and 24? Abortion is going to happen no matter what. It will never stop happening. I think its more important to provide safe clinics where a woman could get an abortion and not risk her life as opposed to using a coat hanger that would kill her and the baby.
[Edited by sundoll-arwhore on 10/4/2004 2:21:20 PM. Reason for edit: .]
10/4/2004 7:17:56 PM
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raginghefer24
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the difference between 8-12 weeks and 24 weeks is about 12-16 weeks
10/4/2004 7:22:42 PM
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nathansym
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We should also provide places for heroine addicts to shoot up safely so they don't overdose.
I mean as long as we are killing children safely then it's fine.
[Edited by nathansym on 10/4/2004 2:26:06 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
10/4/2004 7:24:13 PM
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raginghefer24
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i disected a fetus in 11th grade AP bio...
oh yea...it was a pig
10/4/2004 7:27:18 PM
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Osteor
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Fuck everyone and their propaganda pictures. This picture doesnt mean SHIT. How about YOU make the decisions for everyone else ok? God damn I hate fuckign religious, close minded, bible thumping, non-choice idiots. If someones not doing what you think is right you know what you should do? STAY OUT OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS. Theyre not asking for your approval, and theyre also not the ones showing pictures of dead emaciated babies.
10/4/2004 7:28:02 PM
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sundoll-arwhore
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There are heroin clinics in the United States. ^Osteor-you probably don't give a shit, but you're cool.
[Edited by sundoll-arwhore on 10/4/2004 2:29:18 PM. Reason for edit: meh.]
10/4/2004 7:28:26 PM
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USFbootyGiRL
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Look at what laws say about pronouncing someone legally dead....
brain waves and heartbeats don't develop until later in a pregnancy..thats why I said 8-12 weeks...
I'm not certain on all the timing and stuff though, so I'm not trying to start a debate...either way, everyone has their own opinions on abortion.
10/4/2004 7:31:11 PM
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Whatisusf
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abortions if done properly could help fight hunger in 3rd world countries. RECYCLE.
10/4/2004 7:31:20 PM
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Osteor
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Yea I do care, thanks. Honestly man, if people want to do herion, let them fucking do heroin. Let them rot to death of their own free will, the fact of the matter is we really dont need those people in the world so why try and stop them from doing us a big favor? Abortion is not something you can stop, would you try and stop a woman from having a miscarriage? THE BABY IS ALIVE SO HIS LIFE IS ENDING. OH MY GOD!
10/4/2004 7:33:15 PM
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nathansym
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we shouldnt try to help people ... gotcha
[Edited by nathansym on 10/4/2004 2:47:09 PM. Reason for edit: reread]
10/4/2004 7:38:15 PM
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thisburninghour
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I agree with Osteor.
MY body, MY choice. and you can stay the fuck out of it.
I don't even know if I could ever have an abortion, but you better know that if the time ever comes for me to choose, I am going to make my own fuckin decision.
2:many scenarios
So. The mom knows ahead of time she has a high chance of dying during childbirth. I think she has the right to choose to abort it. What's more important, this person who already is out in the world with relations, or an unborn human?
So. The mom knows she can't possibly take care of the baby. Giving it up opens the chances of it being in a shitty foster home or with crappy adoptive parents. This shit happens, it's terrible but true. Or maybe she just keeps the child anyways, and it has a terrible life.
What's more important? quantity of life, or quality? The world is fuckin overpopulated people!
No ones saying use abortion as some kind of post-conception contraceptive, but give women their reproductive rights.
10/4/2004 7:39:38 PM
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nathansym
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quote :
MY body, MY choice. and you can stay the fuck out of it. |
An unborn baby is a seperate human and is NOT your body.
quote :
What's more important, this person who already is out in the world with relations, or an unborn human? |
So you are comparing the value of two lives?
quote :
So. The mom knows she can't possibly take care of the baby. Giving it up opens the chances of it being in a shitty foster home or with crappy adoptive parents. This shit happens, it's terrible but true. Or maybe she just keeps the child anyways, and it has a terrible life. |
So we should gas the orphanages?
I mean, they are just gonna lead horrible lives. We should end it before they suffer more, right?
Side Note: My aunt is a foster mom. And a great one. Not all of the foster parents are like the horror stories you hear on the news. Not many foster parents get in the headlines for loving their foster kids.
[Edited by nathansym on 10/4/2004 2:48:39 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
10/4/2004 7:45:58 PM
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elm3r
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quote :
There are heroin clinics in the United States. |
Yes, but these clinics do NOT give out heroin and syringes for people to get fucked up. The clinics you refer to are called Methadone clinics. What is methadone, you say? http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs6/6096/
quote :
Fuck everyone and their propaganda pictures. This picture doesnt mean SHIT. How about YOU make the decisions for everyone else ok? God damn I hate fuckign religious, close minded, bible thumping, non-choice idiots. If someones not doing what you think is right you know what you should do? STAY OUT OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS. Theyre not asking for your approval |
* That picture doesn't mean SHIT? I bet you're one of those people that will show a picture of an Iraqi insurgent who was shot while trying to fire an RPG at Coalition troops, and start spouting some anti-war rhetoric. Just because you don't believe in the message the picture is trying to convey, that does not equate to "This picture doesnt mean SHIT."
* Who's being close-minded? You're saying that if we don't agree, to "STAY OUT OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS". No talking, no compromising, nothing. That's about as close-minded as it gets.
* Oh, so if I see someone stabbing a person on the street, I should "STAY OUT OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS"? Eventhough I believe that what they are doing is wrong, and is illegal? Fuck that.
* I am by NO MEANS a bible-thumper, religious zealot, or anything like that. I do, however, believe that an abortion at 24 weeks is severely wrong. I am a republican, but here's one of my liberal views: no abortions past the first trimester (which would be <= 12 weeks). (A staunch republican would say no abortions, period.)After that: sorry. But that's just IMHO, and my $0.02. Tax, tag, and title not included. See store for details. YMMV.
Wow, nathan and i actually can agree on something...
[Edited by elm3r on 10/4/2004 2:57:56 PM. Reason for edit: i'm stuck on band-aid, cause band-aid's stuck on me.]
10/4/2004 7:52:52 PM
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HairyBearChaos
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uh, a fetus is a parasite.
parasite n.
Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
who is to say when life begins? you can't tell me when life begins and you can't tell me what to do with MY body. parasite included.
10/4/2004 7:57:16 PM
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burnsinat0r
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So when does life start, Nathan? The moment of conception? The sperm and egg?
And for the record, I am against late term abortion unless the mother is in danger of losing her life. Then it is her own choice whether or not she dies.
Before a month I see it as a moral choice that one should be left to make on their own. It should not be up to the government as to how someone decides their own morals.
10/4/2004 7:57:43 PM
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nathansym
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Hairybair: so once a fetus (latin for offspring) is able to sustain life on its own then it is murder?
Burns: I believe life starts at conception.
10/4/2004 8:04:05 PM
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HairyBearChaos
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nathan, shut up. you know my name.
i was doing more devil's advocate than anything else. you still can't tell me [women] what to do with my [our] body(ies) -- and that picture may have been taken out of context. what if the mother of that fetus was on the brink of death?
[Edited by HairyBearChaos on 10/4/2004 3:14:27 PM. Reason for edit: .spoo]
10/4/2004 8:07:16 PM
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thisburninghour
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Regardless of whether or not an unborn human is alive or not if it is of my body and there are going to be complications, or other problems, I WANT the right to decide what is best for my sitaution. Not some politician.
I try not to compare human worth. Put yourself in this situation. You're a 5 yr old kid. Mommy's pregnant for the second time. The whole family is excited and celebrating. Dr announces some devestating news. Moms probably gonna die on the delivery room table. She can go through with it for the sake of an unborn human or choose to abort. How are you going to feel if abortions are illegal and your mom dies all because she didn't have the right to her body.
I didn't say anthing about gassing orphanages, and the thought has never crossed my mind bercause frankly, I think that's pretty terrible. But surely you can see how orphan life is not the best.
Glad to hear about your aunt. I don't want to be a foster mom but I hope to one day adopt 2 children. I know there are different stories than the horrible ones showcased in the news, because quite often there are stories of excellent shared too. Fostering and adopting are wonderful selfless things to do. But it can't be denied that there are some shitty foster and adoptive parents out there. With so many unwanted children out there and the overpopulation issue on this earth, I sometimes wonder when the day we are limited to the amount of kids born per family (hopefully) will be set in place. I tend to think of it in terms of sustainability.
I hope you don't think I'm all gung ho about killing off unborn children, because I'm not. I just think that women need to be granted their reproductive rights and the rights to their body.
side notes:
-for every prohibition you create you also create an underground- jello biafra...
-coat hanger abortions are not pretty things. I think its disgusting that people are trying to shut down abortion clinics.
-and to who ever said that bit about heroin junkies...yes, there are clinics that pass out clean needles so as not to spread other diseases.
10/4/2004 8:08:22 PM
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nathansym
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First,
I only read the side notes.
other stuff too long ... read it later
As for the heroine comments ... I wasn't talking about handingout clean needles ...
I was talking about having a place where people could go and buy heroine and shoot up safely ... maybe that does exist.
If it does ... then I dont agree with that either.
10/4/2004 8:13:36 PM
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raginghefer24
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nathan: i agree with your avatar
[Edited by raginghefer24 on 10/4/2004 3:24:58 PM. Reason for edit: :oP]
10/4/2004 8:16:41 PM
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burnsinat0r
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quote :
we shouldnt try to help people ... gotcha |
We shouldn't try to FORCE help on people. Nor should we FORCE morals on people.
quote :
So we should gas the orphanages?
I mean, they are just gonna lead horrible lives. We should end it before they suffer more, right? |
Way to draw uneven parrallels.
quote :
* Who's being close-minded? You're saying that if we don't agree, to "STAY OUT OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS". No talking, no compromising, nothing. That's about as close-minded as it gets. |
Its called moral relativism. It's something this country was based off of when we came over here for our freedom of religion.
quote :
I do, however, believe that an abortion at 24 weeks is severely wrong. I am a republican, but here's one of my liberal views: no abortions past the first trimester (which would be <= 12 weeks). |
I can agree with that.
10/4/2004 8:19:19 PM
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burnsinat0r
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quote :
Burns: I believe life starts at conception. |
And lots of other people believe otherwise. Who are you to say everyone has to follow your rules?
[Edited by burnsinat0r on 10/4/2004 3:23:19 PM. Reason for edit: edit]
10/4/2004 8:21:46 PM
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nathansym
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When did I say that?
I love your type. As soon as anyone has a belief, they are trying to shove it down others throats and tell them what they should believe.
quote :
Way to draw uneven parrallels. |
They aren't ueven parrallels ... if WE (me and you) were discussing it then they would be because WE disagree on when life begins. But she never argued that it wasn't a living human being.
Therefore killing a 2 year old so they wouldn;t have to experience a crappy life would be the same as killing an onborn child.
Also, I think you missed the point of elm3rs statement on Oesters close minded hypocrisy
[Edited by nathansym on 10/4/2004 3:29:33 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
10/4/2004 8:25:35 PM
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timeconsumerx
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i dont get this picture... are you trying to tell me the one on the left is better off or the one on the right is better off? this is ineffective.
10/4/2004 8:28:42 PM
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burnsinat0r
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Nathan, you are claiming that abortion is killing unborn children and it is wrong. And that ending a life is immoral and shouldn't be lega.\l. And then you claim that life starts at conception. So lgically, you jsut claimed that any abortion after conception is wrong and should be illegal. Therefore you are shoving your opinion down our throats.
MMy opinion is that others shouldn't shove their own opinions and morals down others throats. Hence my support of choice.
quote :
They aren't ueven parrallels ... if WE (me and you) were discussing it then they would be because WE disagree on when life begins. But she never argued that it wasn't a living human being.
Therefore killing a 2 year old so they wouldn;t have to experience a crappy life would be the same as killing an onborn child.
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You knwo why it's an uneven parallel? Because the 2 year old is a living child by everyones standards. Aborting an undeveloped fetus is entirely not the same. Of course if you want to bend logic and avoid that go ahead.
[Edited by burnsinat0r on 10/4/2004 3:32:23 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
10/4/2004 8:29:40 PM
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nathansym
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it's really for those that argue that unborn babies are not human beings that posses life
10/4/2004 8:31:12 PM
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nathansym
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lol
So any person that has a belief that what others are doing is wrong and/or immoral is shoving it down their throat?
I should never speak my beliefs out loud?
read what I said joe ... I am not bending logic.
I believe that an unborn child is just as much a human as a kid in an orphanage and this was not a dispute between us (me and burninghour).
.:. no uneven parrallels
.:. no bend in logic
[Edited by nathansym on 10/4/2004 3:36:29 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
10/4/2004 8:34:06 PM
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thisburninghour
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p.s. if you read my second post you might understand my point a little better.
10/4/2004 8:34:32 PM
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burnsinat0r
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If you believe it should be made illegal and enforced on everyone, then yes, Nathan.
10/4/2004 8:35:40 PM
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nathansym
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If I believe cigarrettes should be illegal I am shoving my opinion down everyone's throat?
I forgot in a debate only the side with the opinion you believe was allowed to talk.
[Edited by nathansym on 10/4/2004 3:39:06 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
10/4/2004 8:38:49 PM
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timeconsumerx
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i'd rather have the dead one than the sorry excuse for blood and flesh on the left. thats torture.
10/4/2004 8:38:52 PM
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anticsprite
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I was brought up and still believe if you're responsible enough to have sex...you're responsible enough to bear a child.
10/4/2004 8:39:23 PM
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nathansym
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burn unit victims are pretty ugly too
and in a lot of pain
10/4/2004 8:39:53 PM
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timeconsumerx
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pull the plug, baby
10/4/2004 8:42:03 PM
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timeconsumerx
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ps that was the most invalid point EVER
10/4/2004 8:42:27 PM
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nathansym
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ok here is my point.
the baby may be ugly right now but he/she will get better and continue to live life
just like a burn victim ...
10/4/2004 8:44:13 PM
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burnsinat0r
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quote :
If I believe cigarrettes should be illegal I am shoving my opinion down everyone's throat?
I forgot in a debate only the side with the opinion you believe was allowed to talk. |
If you believe cigarrettes should be illegal in all cases then, yes. It is someones personal choice that they want to smoke. You saying you're not cool with that is shoving your opinion down their throat and especially if you enforce it with legislation.
On the other hand, if you say second hand smoke is a problem and you restrict smoking to designated areas than that is different. You are enforcing laws where people impose their moral choice on others (second hand smoke).
It is almost impossible to reach a verdict on when life starts. It is a matter of opinion of course. My opinion is that when the baby is able to survive outside of the mother it is considered alive. I also believe abortion is wrong after the first trimester. But some people see it differently. It is a moral choice and should be left up to a person.
A person that believe is an absolute has trouble with that. I understand that because I used to think like that. But telling a woman she can't have an abortion if she is dying is plain wrong.
10/4/2004 8:45:54 PM
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burnsinat0r
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quote :
So. The mom knows she can't possibly take care of the baby. Giving it up opens the chances of it being in a shitty foster home or with crappy adoptive parents. This shit happens, it's terrible but true. Or maybe she just keeps the child anyways, and it has a terrible life.
What's more important? quantity of life, or quality? The world is fuckin overpopulated people!
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That brings up another point. It isn't fair to say that a baby will be stuck in a foster home or whatever the situation might be and deem it unfit for life. The amount of people trying to adopt babies is amazing. My girlfriend was adopted at birth and she turned out just fine.
I do agree on the overpopulation thing. But it isn't a problem in America. Adopting kids from other countries is great...but most people don't do it.
10/4/2004 8:50:05 PM
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nathansym
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Smoking in restaraunts wasnt always illegal.
It took someone standing up and saying "You know what, this is wrong" to get that as a bill which then passed into a law and then was enforced.
You really don't make any sense at all.
It tool people standing up and saying "slavery is immoral, wrong and should be made illegal" for it to be abolished.
Were they shoving their opinion down others throats?
I mean, they thought something was immoral that others did not and they wanted to make legislation to make slavery illegal!
THAT'S HORRIBLE!
You have no ground to stand on Joe.
10/4/2004 8:53:05 PM
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raginghefer24
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can some one explain roe vs. wade to me? 
10/4/2004 8:58:37 PM
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burnsinat0r
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Jesus fucking christ. Did you read my post nathan?
quote :
You are enforcing laws where people impose their moral choice on others (second hand smoke). |
[Edited by burnsinat0r on 10/4/2004 4:02:01 PM. Reason for edit: do we need laymens terms?]
10/4/2004 8:59:14 PM
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nathansym
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quote :
If you believe cigarrettes should be illegal in all cases then, yes. It is someones personal choice that they want to smoke |
please refer to my slavery reference.
Some believed that slavery was wrong in ALL instances. Some believed that owning a slave was a personal choice.
All I am trying to say is that stating my belief that something is immoral is not shoving it down someone's throat.
quote :
You are enforcing laws where people impose their moral choice on others (second hand smoke). |
And this has happened .... so what's your point?
The people that made these laws are shoving it down other's throats?
hefer ... I could tell you the roe v wade story from my perspective but it would sound biased.
I will say that roe is now an active anti-abortionist and has stated publicy that she was pressured by the ACLU to continue her case and bring it to the supreme court.
[Edited by nathansym on 10/4/2004 4:03:09 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
[Edited by nathansym on 10/4/2004 4:04:53 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
10/4/2004 9:01:03 PM
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burnsinat0r
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And the law isnt about the fact that they own slaves so much as the fact that the slaves are affected by it! Read the post.
quote :
All I am trying to say is that stating my belief that something is immoral is not shoving it down someone's throat. |
And im saying that suggesting it should be legislation is shoving it down people's throats.
[Edited by burnsinat0r on 10/4/2004 4:04:43 PM. Reason for edit: .]
10/4/2004 9:03:21 PM
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raginghefer24
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nathan i know all about it...i'm just trying to be a diversion...and an idiot...dammit...it's not working 
10/4/2004 9:05:06 PM
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nathansym
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Joe.
Here is what I am saying.
Let me lay it out clearly.
I believe that life begins at conception.
Therefore I believe that every abortions takes a human life and is a murder.
Therefore I believe that there have been millions of murders.
Of course I am going to speak out, voice my beliefs, try and convince others, try and have legislation introduced/passed, etc .. to stop these mass murders.
Just like people spoke out against slavery, just like people speak out against genocides in rwanda, the sudan, iraq, indonesia, etc ...
10/4/2004 9:13:43 PM
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burnsinat0r
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quote :
And this has happened .... so what's your point?
The people that made these laws are shoving it down other's throats? |
I am a liberterian and I'm very much so a moral relativist. So yes. Imposing laws about someones personal choices is against my own morals. Telling a person they can't do something (whether it be consensual gay sex or marriage, or the use of drugs) when it harms no one but themselves is wrong.
10/4/2004 9:17:24 PM
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AfroWanksta
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It would harm the fetus which is wrong
10/4/2004 9:25:16 PM
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sundoll-arwhore
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No matter what your opinion is-abortions happen. You can't stop it. It is a fact of life.
10/4/2004 9:28:42 PM
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burnsinat0r
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Alright, I accept and respectyour opinion. However, this is not everyones moral belief. And some people believe it is a persons own moral choice. And declaring when life starts is going to be impossible. But most people don't believe life starts at conception.
10/4/2004 9:31:46 PM
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nathansym
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sundoll is right ... kinda
more a fact of death though.
it's similar to the war thing.
Moral relativism leads to lack of morals.
There has to be a line drawn.
[Edited by nathansym on 10/4/2004 4:43:24 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
10/4/2004 9:38:10 PM
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scuffmaster
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Amen Osteor, right on man!
10/4/2004 9:45:38 PM
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AfroWanksta
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I don't like the idea of abortions, but don't beleive it's the government's place to regulate
No abortions before 12 weeks is probably the best compromise that will ever be reached
10/4/2004 9:48:00 PM
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burnsinat0r
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And moral absolutism leads to oppression. Whats your point? That there is no grey area?
10/4/2004 9:48:36 PM
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nathansym
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Saying something is wrong is your idea of moral absolutism?
10/4/2004 9:52:24 PM
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burnsinat0r
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No, saying that your opinion is right and must be followed is. Im now suggesting that you are a strict absolutist. I was just giving the counter to your comment about relativism leading to lack of morals.
10/4/2004 9:56:19 PM
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nathansym
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Your question "What's your point?" kinda threw me.
I thought it was pretty clear that my point was moral relativism leads to a lack of morals.
10/4/2004 10:02:11 PM
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burnsinat0r
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I was using sarcasm to say that relativism does not strictly lead to negating morals. There is lot's of philosophy about this but it all boils down to acknowledging that other people have different morals but letting them do as they please as long as it does not interfere with anothers well being.
And yes I realize that you can include the unborn child as the person that it is affecting. That whole debate was kind of a tangent that leads back to itself. Abortion doesn't follow the "sane moralists" ideal of moral relativism to some because they consider that unborn child to be a person being affected by this choice. Although, some people don't consider that child to be alive, so it all boils down to subjective moral judgment.
My personal moral convictions consider a child to be alive after the first trimester when it is starting to develop. I do not consider an ebryo to be a living human being. Attaching a soulc to the conception is a matter of faith and the government is not supposed to be dealing with faith. If you want to look at abortion scientifically and legally you consider the unborn child to be living when it develops signs of life. Which start at the end of the first trimester.
10/4/2004 11:18:45 PM
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Justferfun
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I understand fully that everyone has a different set of morals to guide themselves. Some murderers tend to believe what they do is moral, but again that affects someone else. However with teh fetus it is arguable as to weither or not is is in fact a "someone else" which is why the argument even exists. I also understand that illegalizing (is this a word?) abortions is not going to make abortions go away. While it may significantly decrease the number of abortions, it will not end them, and "back alley" abortion clinics will sprout up.
This is what I ask. Rather than argue as to weither or not Abortions are moral or immoral, rather than argue when life begins, rather than discuss legistation against the issue, let us simply try to decrease the number of abortions that happen nationwide. Limiting abortions to the first 12 weeks is one way. But I absolutely disgust people who speak lightly of the matter of abortion. Ashley Judd for example made abortions sound like nothing to be concerned about or give thought to. She actually said once that she wants to get an abortion "just because". I don't know how helpful "Planned Parenthood" is on the matter of actually planning parenthood ("aborting" a "fetus" is not a plan for parenthood, it's a plan to avoid parenthood.) but it would be nice if they stressed the options before going straight to abortion.
It all comes down to responsibility... If you're responsible enough to get pregnant (rapes excluded), you're responsible enough to care for a child (and give up your "youth" for it). People need to start taking responsibility for their actions (this doesn't only apply to pregnancy).
/incoherent rambling
10/4/2004 11:35:42 PM
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burnsinat0r
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I agree with that. Abortions should not have to be a necessary thing. There are enough precautions out there that abortions shouldn't have to be a resort at all. But they aren't perfect and not everyone uses them obviously. Hell, a girl could get pregnant using a condom and birth control (very unlikely of course). I used to think rape was only a rare case when it came to abortions. Turns out it is a lot more prevalent than one would think.
And yes there should be limitations to abortion and it should be discouraged. But making it illegal in total is just stupid.
[Edited by burnsinat0r on 10/4/2004 6:56:23 PM. Reason for edit: I can't type]
10/4/2004 11:53:42 PM
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tampacheercoach
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I just love when men have opinions on abortion, something they will never have to consider. I am prochoice and I agree, my body=my choice. Who the hell gives you the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body. What happens if we ban abortion, it wont end. Women will just keep doing it, and the conditions in which its done will deteriorate. I also just love people who say, " I will never do it, im so against it." I for one dont know what I would do if faced with that decision, and I wont know for sure until I have to make that choice for myself. Its easy for people to sit back and judge others, but what happens when they are faced with the same decision? I think a lot of people would change their minds.
10/5/2004 3:47:01 AM
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nathansym
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Women should really be the only ones to have an opinion on the murder of a human being.
quote :
as for the heroin clinics, you know that if they were legal they wouldnt have that "ooo its illegal" appeal to it and many people wouldnt do it, because it wouldnt seem as cool. Plus, it wouldnt be so big because lower end people wouldnt be making money off of it, and they wouldnt have an incentive to push the product. And, the government would be better able to control people who were on the drug, help them. I seriously think that if it were legal it wouldnt be that big of a thing because of the whole legal, uncool aspect. |
ummmm ... since when did people do heroine because it's cool?
have you seen any pictures on this site of people shooting up heroine and bragging about it ... like pot?
but I guess that's why no one smokes cigarettes
[Edited by nathansym on 10/4/2004 11:00:51 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
10/5/2004 3:56:14 AM
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Justferfun
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quote :
I just love when men have opinions on abortion, something they will never have to consider. |
Yes, because men play no part at all in the creation of a child and therefore should remain mute unless the woman decides he should speak.
Shut your ignorant fucking mouth. Men have as much a voice in this matter as women.
10/5/2004 4:04:27 AM
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tampacheercoach
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"Women should really be the only ones to have an opinion on the murder of a human being. "
I dont consider it murder, you do.We arent talking about a two year old that can survive without its mother, a 10 week old fetus cannot live outside of its mother, therefor in my opinion it is not a life. Its fine if men want to have an opinion, but I find it annoying when they try and shove it down my throat. Like I said, its very easy for you to sit there and tell me its wrong when its a decision you will never have to make.
Yes men help with the creation of life, I didnt say that. But men do not have to carry the fetus for nine months, or give birth to it. It is not endangering your life for me to have the child, so yes I think I get more say in it than you do.
[Edited by tampacheercoach on 10/4/2004 11:10:12 PM. Reason for edit: bleh]
10/5/2004 4:06:04 AM
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Justferfun
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Show me a two year old that can survive on its own.
10/5/2004 4:10:21 AM
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Justferfun
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quote :
Yes men help with the creation of life, I didnt say that. But men do not have to carry the fetus for nine months, or give birth to it. It is not endangering your life for me to have the child, so yes I think I get more say in it than you do. |
So you're saying that if the man wants the child and the woman doesn't, tough fucking luck. Fuck you, and fuck that idea. You're life is not endangered by being fucking pregnant. Equal rights bitches.
10/5/2004 4:12:56 AM
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tampacheercoach
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Okay a two year old can survive without its mother, isnt that what I said? I didnt say it could survive on its own. A ten week old fetus on the other hand cannot survive without its mother.
"So you're saying that if the man wants the child and the woman doesn't, tough fucking luck"
Yea thats pretty much it.
"You're life is not endangered by being fucking pregnant. Equal rights bitches."
Oh im sorry doctor I didnt realize that I knew so little about reproduction. What the hell are you talking about! Have you ever heard of Pregnancy induced hypertension, or diabetes? How about women who have c-sections, that is a major surgery. Women can die from pregnancy or labor, so maybe you need to shut the fuck up!
[Edited by tampacheercoach on 10/4/2004 11:18:47 PM. Reason for edit: <0]
10/5/2004 4:17:34 AM
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Justferfun
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quote :
Have you ever heard of Pregnancy induced hypertension, or diabetes? How about women who have c-sections, that is a major surgery. |
Not fatal. My mom had a c-section. Again, your life is not endangered by being pregnant in most occurances. On the rare fucking occassion that your life is in jeopardy, I'm sure the man will agree with you that an abortion is the right choice. But to ignore the man's opinion under every fucking circumstance is wrong.
Equal rights, except for when it comes to two people's child (it takes two to get pregnant, even with artificial pregnancy).
10/5/2004 4:28:26 AM
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tampacheercoach
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"On the rare fucking occassion that your life is in jeopardy, I'm sure the man will agree with you that an abortion is the right choice"
See heres the thing, you cant always predict when your life will be in danger. Pregnacy induced hypertension or diabetes CAN be fatal and most of the time dont manifest until farther along in the pregnancy! Im glad your mom had a C-section, but just because she was okay doesnt mean everyone will be. It would be nice to sit down with the father and have a little chat but if I dont want to carry the child then I dont think the talk will accomplish much.
Pregnancy is not fifty fifty between the mother and father, it is one hundred percent the mothers responsibility. So why should the decision be fifty fifty, if the pregnancy is not?
[Edited by tampacheercoach on 10/4/2004 11:40:43 PM. Reason for edit: eh]
10/5/2004 4:38:38 AM
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Justferfun
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quote :
Pregnancy is not fifty fifty between the mother and father, it is one hundred percent the mothers responsibility. So why should the decision be fifty fifty, if the pregnancy is not? |
Remember that quote when you complain about child support.
Last I checked, the father was at least somewhat responsible for the pregnancy of a woman. I don't know though, it's been awhile since I took that Sex ED class...
10/5/2004 4:47:05 AM
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tampacheercoach
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Again thats not what I said, he may have helped create the situation but going through the pregnancy is completely the womans responsibility. Unless I forgot, men do not share in pregnancy. If you did then yes it would be equal, and would merit equal say in the decision. But until men get to carry the baby for half the time, then the pregnancy part is still my responsibility.
10/5/2004 4:54:50 AM
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Justferfun
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responsibility. Abortion isn't being very responsible. You sexiest bitch.
10/5/2004 4:58:29 AM
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tampacheercoach
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"responsibility. Abortion isn't being very responsible. You sexiest bitch. "
In my opinion having a child that I cannot afford to raise, and then relying on welfare and handouts is being irresponsible.
"Abortion isn't being very responsible"
But that is completely your opinion, asshole.
10/5/2004 5:02:32 AM
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Justferfun
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quote :
"responsibility. Abortion isn't being very responsible. You sexiest bitch. "
In my opinion having a child that I cannot afford to raise, and then relying on welfare and handouts is being irresponsible. |
Then getting pregnant in general is irresponsible... Close your legs and get a job.
10/5/2004 5:04:50 AM
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tampacheercoach
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Perhaps you should shut the fuck up.
10/5/2004 5:09:40 AM
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Justferfun
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10/5/2004 5:17:34 AM
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tampacheercoach
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Wow how intelligent, and im a sexist bitch huh.
10/5/2004 5:29:33 AM
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pirateshark9
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never have i even loved nathan so much as now. : )
10/5/2004 5:35:41 AM
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nathansym
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Can it be?
A woman that agrees?
... or was that sarcasm?
10/5/2004 1:03:27 PM
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burnsinat0r
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I know a few woman that agree with you. They are all hardcore christians though.
10/5/2004 3:09:57 PM
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SweetCuteGirl
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Every morning you wake up there is a chance you'll die that day. Next time you get in your car you could die. Next time you eat something you could die. so on and so forth...
10/5/2004 3:17:13 PM
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nathansym
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i dont understand
10/5/2004 3:42:12 PM
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elm3r
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quote :
"So you're saying that if the man wants the child and the woman doesn't, tough fucking luck"
Yea thats pretty much it. |
Yeah. If a chick took that approach with me, and terminated my child without my consent, there would be hell to pay. As in, the unborn child wouldn't be the only dead one in this equation.
I understand that if the woman's life is danger because of a MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED CONDITION, then yes, abortion is the only feasible option. But to say "Oh, pregnancy in general is life threatening." is a true fallacy.
quote :
Like I said, its very easy for you to sit there and tell me its wrong when its a decision you will never have to make. |
What do you mean "its a decision you will never have to make"? Just because men do not carry the child doesn't mean that it's a decision that they will never have to make. I personally would NEVER be able to look at myself the same again if I was party to an abortion that was done for ANY OTHER REASON than a MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED CONDITION that could/would cause death to the mother. Men bear the toll of abortion more than women would think, or admit to. So, since women take the "Oh, men aren't really bothered by it", it makes their "It's my decision, and mine alone" argument more plausable. Atleast in their own heads.
quote :
Yes men help with the creation of life, I didnt say that. But men do not have to carry the fetus for nine months, or give birth to it. It is not endangering your life for me to have the child, so yes I think I get more say in it than you do. |
You know what I find ironic? The same women that say the above are the same ones whining about child support when their man (who has "less of a say in the child's life than the woman") takes off and doesn't pay up.
10/5/2004 4:06:32 PM
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tampacheercoach
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"Yeah. If a chick took that approach with me, and terminated my child without my consent, there would be hell to pay. As in, the unborn child wouldn't be the only dead one in this equation."
Wow I mean theres just no response to something like that. Your threatening to kill someone because they go against your wishes? Wow.
"I understand that if the woman's life is danger because of a MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED CONDITION, then yes, abortion is the only feasible option. "Oh, pregnancy in general is life threatening." is a true fallacy"
My point is this, the pregnancy will affect only me phsycially. In every pregnancy there is a chance for complications that are possibly life threatening. To a woman who wants to have a child, those complications go unnoticed. But if I have no desire to have that child then that is not something I can just accept and ignore just because you tell me I should.
"Oh, pregnancy in general is life threatening." is a true fallacy"
I believe I said that pregnancy can be life threatening.
"What do you mean "its a decision you will never have to make"? Just because men do not carry the child doesn't mean that it's a decision that they will never have to make. I personally would NEVER be able to look at myself the same again if I was party to an abortion that was done for ANY OTHER REASON than a MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED CONDITION that could/would cause death to the mother. Men bear the toll of abortion more than women would think, or admit to. So, since women take the "Oh, men aren't really bothered by it", it makes their "It's my decision, and mine alone" argument more plausable. Atleast in their own heads. "
You cannot force a woman to carry a child that she doesnt want to carry, and vica versa. As much as you would like to believe you have equal say in it, most likely what it will come down to is what the woman decides is right for her, whether she tells you that or not. You can always tell her what you think she should do, but in the end her decision will most likely be more her decision than yours.
"You know what I find ironic? The same women that say the above are the same ones whining about child support when their man (who has "less of a say in the child's life than the woman") takes off and doesn't pay up. "
I absolutely do not "whine about child support" because I dont have any children. If I had children then maybe I would have an stronger opinion on it, but I dont have children so I dont have much of an opinion on child support in general.
[Edited by tampacheercoach on 10/5/2004 11:58:31 AM. Reason for edit: <0]
10/5/2004 4:56:22 PM
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pirateshark9
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not sarcasm nathan, i totally agree with you. hence the: i heart nathan.
10/5/2004 5:03:12 PM
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thisburninghour
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aside from everything everyones said. I'm gonna relate this to comas- There is no set generalized rule for that because every case is different; same here with abortions. I think that the government just really shouldn't have much say in something as sacred as reproductive rights. Same way I think they shouldn't have any kind of say in who marries who and so on.
10/5/2004 6:04:10 PM
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rinpants
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<-- pro-choice
10/5/2004 6:11:19 PM
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nathansym
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I wish there was somehing better than yes I could click on the hookup page for you April.
10/5/2004 6:38:52 PM
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pirateshark9
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im touched.
10/5/2004 7:10:20 PM
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elm3r
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quote :
"Yeah. If a chick took that approach with me, and terminated my child without my consent, there would be hell to pay. As in, the unborn child wouldn't be the only dead one in this equation."
Wow I mean theres just no response to something like that. Your threatening to kill someone because they go against your wishes? Wow. |
Going against my wishes? That's desensitising the scenario, isn't it? It's not like: if my significant other wanted to see a movie when I wanted to go to a club, and if she went to the movie anyways, that I'd cap her. That's "going against my wishes".
BUT: killing a family member of mine (aka: aborting a child that IS MINE AS WELL, WITHOUT MY CONSENT) is something I don't take very well.
quote :
My point is this, the pregnancy will affect only me phsycially. In every pregnancy there is a chance for complications that are possibly life threatening. To a woman who wants to have a child, those complications go unnoticed. But if I have no desire to have that child then that is not something I can just accept and ignore just because you tell me I should.
"Oh, pregnancy in general is life threatening." is a true fallacy"
I believe I said that pregnancy can be life threatening. |
And drinking water CAN BE life threatening. You gonna stop doing that? So is waking up. I mean shit, you could get killed by a falling meteor as soon as you walk out your door. You gonna stop doing that too, Howard Hughes?
quote :
You cannot force a woman to carry a child that she doesnt want to carry, and vica versa. As much as you would like to believe you have equal say in it, most likely what it will come down to is what the woman decides is right for her, whether she tells you that or not. You can always tell her what you think she should do, but in the end her decision will most likely be more her decision than yours. |
If the woman cannot give me a logical reason for terminating MY CHILD, and does it without my consent, there will be hell to pay. That's it.
quote :
"You know what I find ironic? The same women that say the above are the same ones whining about child support when their man (who has "less of a say in the child's life than the woman") takes off and doesn't pay up. "
I absolutely do not "whine about child support" because I dont have any children. If I had children then maybe I would have an stronger opinion on it, but I dont have children so I dont have much of an opinion on child support in general. |
Read my quote again. I said the same women, as in women who share that opinion (aka: not just you). Just pointing out a double-standard: women can say "it's my child, and I'll do with it as I please", but will then hunt down deadbeat fathers, saying that they are bad/horrible/etc for not supporting THEIR child.
[Edited by elm3r on 10/5/2004 2:38:34 PM. Reason for edit: 16 in the clip, and one in the hole...]
10/5/2004 7:36:13 PM
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Justferfun
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Here's a question for the cheerleading coach:
If you decide to have the baby (since after all, it's 100% your choice) and the father wants you to abort it (which doesn't matter because his opinion matters 0%), should he have to pay child support for the child he never wanted? I mean, if the woman doesn't want the child, she can just flush it, a man can't make that choice, according to you.
Abortion is one thing, saying it is 100% the mother's choice and 0% the father's choice is another.
10/5/2004 8:42:49 PM
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tampacheercoach
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If I decided to have a child against the wishes of the father then I personally would not expect him to pay child support. But that is just my personal opinion, others may disagree.
But like I said, I dont know exactly what I would do in that situation because I have never been in that situation.
"Abortion is one thing, saying it is 100% the mother's choice and 0% the father's choice is another."
Again that is completely your opinion, and mind differs. In reality it really is the mothers choice. Why, because you cant force a woman to have a child or to not have a child because it is her body.
[Edited by tampacheercoach on 10/5/2004 4:11:40 PM. Reason for edit: <0]
10/5/2004 9:08:36 PM
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Justferfun
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You've also never been in the situation of abortion (correct me if I'm wrong there), but you seem to have a strong opinion on that.
[Edited by Justferfun on 10/5/2004 4:11:21 PM. Reason for edit: []
10/5/2004 9:10:19 PM
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tampacheercoach
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How exactly do you know if I have been in that situation or not?
Personally I dont know what I would do if I were faced with a decision like that. Thats why I am pro-choice, because I would like to be able to make that choice myself. I know someone close to me who was faced with the decision and I learned from her that you never know one hundred percent what you will do in any given situation.
[Edited by tampacheercoach on 10/5/2004 4:19:31 PM. Reason for edit: <0]
10/5/2004 9:12:43 PM
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Justferfun
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(correct me if I'm wrong there)*
[Edited by Justferfun on 10/5/2004 4:24:59 PM. Reason for edit: that was just too much...]
10/5/2004 9:18:08 PM
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Lysander
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Ahhh, the neverending abortion debate. How about everyone just cool off and realize no one is right and it's all a matter of opinion?
10/5/2004 9:21:20 PM
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Justferfun
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It stopped being a debate about abortion a long time ago, Brad. The argument shifted to wheither or not the father has any say his child's life. And if he has no say, should he have to pay?
[Edited by Justferfun on 10/5/2004 4:27:40 PM. Reason for edit: []
10/5/2004 9:26:31 PM
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tampacheercoach
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Lysander,you are correct but I think Ben is compelled to have the last word on everything.
10/5/2004 9:26:36 PM
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Justferfun
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How do you feel about men pushing the women they've inpregnated down a stairwell? It's like our version of abortion. 
10/5/2004 9:30:30 PM
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tampacheercoach
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^^ See (-:
10/5/2004 9:31:38 PM
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Lysander
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I didn't read everything, but the answer to all of this is simple:
The government has no right inside a woman's uterus. Everything else is up to the mother and the father.
10/5/2004 9:34:01 PM
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nathansym
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The government has no right to prevent murders?
10/5/2004 9:37:04 PM
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Justferfun
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So now we're to petty insults since you no longer want to argue/have an argument. Excellent strategy, tell me how it works out.
Wheither you are for abortion or against abortion, the father should have a say in his child's life. To deny him this is selfish and petty. Think about someone other than yourself for once.
10/5/2004 9:37:20 PM
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elm3r
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Ben, just give up. She's too fucking narrow-minded to listen. I mean shit, look at what she's writing:
quote :
Again that is completely your opinion, and mind differs. In reality it really is the mothers choice. |
She states that it's an opinion, but that "in reality" it's solely the mothers choice. She's trying to use logical fallacies to back up her unsubstantiated claims that since the baby is inside of a woman, that the woman can kill it if she deems appropriate. And that is ok to do, without the father's consent, and that he should be COOL with that.
quote :
Why, because you cant force a woman to have a child or to not have a child because it is her body. |
Yknow, maybe not. But again: if a woman i were with did this without my consent, she'd die just as quick. So yeah, she can abort her baby because "pregnancy can be life threatening" (AGAIN: you said this statement in contrast to me saying that I WOULD consent to an abortion if the woman could die in the process, as diagnosed BY A MEDICAL DOCTOR, not a magic eight ball), and I can't technically stop the doctor from giving her womb the Hoover-Vac treatment. But the cunt will die soon anyways: by my hands, not nature's. Atleast with nature, she has a chance. =)
I just love, though, how ms. cheercoach over there hasn't addressed any of the points I made in my most previous post. Cat got your tongue?
[Edited by elm3r on 10/5/2004 5:06:29 PM. Reason for edit: aaeoiha0gh34]
10/5/2004 10:04:53 PM
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raginghefer24
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oh my goodness...this argument will never end!!!!
10/5/2004 10:23:51 PM
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tampacheercoach
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No Elmer "cat has not gotten my tongue" but I do realize that my opinions are just that, my opinions. We can sit here and argue back and forth until we die but most likely you arent going to change your opinion and im most definately not going to change mine. I have stated my opinion over and over again, so why bother to sit here and pick apart everything you say again and again for no apparent gain? Some of us cant spend our entire lives on the internet arguing with strangers.
"But the cunt will die soon anyways: by my hands, not nature's. Atleast with nature, she has a chance. =)"
I love this, so your saying that abortion is murder and that its wrong right? But your okay with killing someone because they do something you disagree with? That makes lots of sense.
"So now we're to petty insults since you no longer want to argue/have an argument. Excellent strategy, tell me how it works out."
Do I need to go back over this thread and point out all of the petty name calling that is scattered throughout your posts? I was kidding, I read another post in which someone mentioned that you seem to be compelled to have the last word in every matter. Obviously I am right in that observation. I dont recall any insults, just more of an observation.
[Edited by tampacheercoach on 10/5/2004 5:44:11 PM. Reason for edit: <0]
10/5/2004 10:40:07 PM
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raginghefer24
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someone told me in like pre-school that 1 wrong + 1 wrong is not equal to 1 right...
so who's wrong here and who's right?
[Edited by raginghefer24 on 10/5/2004 5:43:40 PM. Reason for edit: .]
10/5/2004 10:43:10 PM
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elm3r
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quote :
"But the cunt will die soon anyways: by my hands, not nature's. Atleast with nature, she has a chance. =)"
I love this, so your saying that abortion is murder and that its wrong right? But your okay with killing someone because they do something you disagree with? That makes lots of sense. |
Whoa whoa whoa. Step back for a second, and think before you type. NEVER, EVER did I say that "abortion is murder", or any of that bullshit. I said that I believe it's wrong when not done for a BONA-FIDE MEDICAL REASON. My words were merely in contrast to your uppity "I'm woman, so I can make whatever decision I want concerning a pregnancy, no matter what anyone says (including the father of said child)" comments. And there you go again, de-sensitising the situation by saying "Oh, you're gonna kill someone over a little disagreement?" You must have failed public speaking, or had a really bad professor.
Again, let me restate my thesis: If a significant other of mine is pregnant with my child, and aborts the child for any reason other than life-threatening (read: WITHOUT A BONA-FIDE MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS SAYING THAT HER LIFE IS SEVERELY AT RISK), on her own free will, and without consent from me, then she'll feel two things: what it's like to give death, and what it's like to receive it.
10/5/2004 11:56:42 PM
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tampacheercoach
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So your sitting there insulting my intelligence and my arguement when your only argument is that if she has an abortion I will kill her? That is incredibly intelligent of you, I can see how your public speaking (since when is the internet public) skills are so much more refined that mine are.
10/6/2004 12:07:48 AM
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nathansym
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at least he doesn't believe in murdering babies.
10/6/2004 12:36:35 AM
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Sweetlilmissa
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I agree and disagree. I believe a woman should have a choice but I also feel that late term abortion is wrong. In the third trimester, if a baby is born premature, it has the ability to survive in the world. So yes, that fetus is a human. Also in the third trimester, a fetus can feel pain, react to loud sounds or lights shined on the mother's belly, and remember a story that is read to it over and over during that trimester (I don't feel like getting into this experiment, it takes too long to explain). How can you tell me that that fetus is not a human being?
I could personally not have an abortion unless for health reasons.
So you're saying that if the man wants the child and the woman doesn't, tough fucking luck.
I think that that is a touchy subject right there. I believe the father should have a say but at the same time I know if it was my body, I would be making the final choice. I'm not saying either Justferfun or tampacheer are wrong, I'm just not sure how I feel about it.
Btw, I learned in Human Sexual Behavior that having an abortion is very risky as well. It's no picnic.
10/6/2004 1:01:20 AM
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Justferfun
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Cheercoach, I don't think you grasp the concept elmer is trying to explain.
If his signficant other murder's his child, he will be furious and most likely kill the bitch. I must agree with him on this matter, as the life of my child comes above all else (call parential instinct if you would).
10/6/2004 2:21:11 AM
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tampacheercoach
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I completely grasp what he is saying, what I dont understand is how you can sit there and tell me that you believe abortion is murder and wrong, yet its okay for you to go out and kill another person. Is murder wrong all the time, or just when its convenient for you?
How can you say that you would respond to something that you deem wrong, by doing the same thing. Wouldnt that make you just as bad as the woman you killed? Isnt that a little hypocritical?
10/6/2004 2:34:57 AM
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Justferfun
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We're not saying abortion(or as you like to call it, murder) is wrong your fucking twit. We're saying killing our child is wrong.
[Edited by Justferfun on 10/5/2004 9:42:29 PM. Reason for edit: []
10/6/2004 2:38:38 AM
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tampacheercoach
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So explain to me why its okay for you to kill the mother of the child, but its not okay for the mother to get an abortion? By saying that you would react to the so called murder of your child with the murder of the childs mother you have made yourself into a hypocrit.
For some reason I thought you had said you were against abortion because it was murder, I apologize if I was wrong.
"So now we're to petty insults since you no longer want to argue/have an argument. Excellent strategy, tell me how it works out."
"fucking twit"
Its a little like the pot calling the kettle black now isnt it.
10/6/2004 2:51:20 AM
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Justferfun
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The insult was to grab your attention, kettle. I didn't call abortion murder, I said it's something I don't agree with, but understand why it must be legal. I personally would never want my child aborted for anything less than serious medical reasons.
Nothing hypocritical here. You kill my kid, my defenseless child, I will kill you.
10/6/2004 2:56:49 AM
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GoBullz
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if you dont want a baby, why are you having sex?
11/3/2004 4:08:06 PM
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buhdungadung
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god, Nathan. Stop with the bullshit. We get it. You are against abortion. It isnt like we havent seen these pictures before, so you posting this on fucking usfbullshit is not going to do a damn thing.
11/3/2004 5:36:52 PM
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nathansym
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thank you for moving the picture to the top of the recent comments
11/3/2004 5:46:16 PM
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raginghefer24
1 Photos
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i bet if we all keep commenting and arguing about the subject we can keep it there
11/3/2004 5:57:03 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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i disagree
11/3/2004 5:59:04 PM
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raginghefer24
1 Photos
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i don't
11/3/2004 6:13:03 PM
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buhdungadung
20 Photos
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yeah. it usually moves up on the recent comments when someone makes a new comment. Funny how that shit works.
11/3/2004 6:33:40 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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please stop arguing
you are just moving this picture to the top and exposing more people to the horrible truth of abortion
come on now ... people need to be blind to what happens
11/3/2004 6:37:39 PM
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diclophis
82 Photos
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I prefer chicken fried fetus myself, but to each his own.
11/3/2004 6:42:50 PM
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buhdungadung
20 Photos
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actually, when this gets bumped, people can see that your arguments and logic are lacking
11/3/2004 6:46:12 PM
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CallMeEleanor
131 Photos
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Hey Nathan.
I'd just like to add...that rabble rabble rabble...and rabble rabble, but rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble.
But really, I think it's a little hypocritical of the conservatives to restrict sexual education in schools and then ban abortions. Ignoring social vices is ignorant. I'm not for abortion at ALL but realistically--it'll happen anyways. It should be legal until more educational measures are taken. Counsiling should be performed before an abortion--not have it advertised in college newspapers and clinics for the cheapest possible price.
Hooray logic!
Now we can stop arguing because I'm a genius and I just solved EVERYTHING.
[Edited by CallMeEleanor on 11/3/2004 1:52:48 PM. Reason for edit: EVERYTHING]
11/3/2004 6:51:32 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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Please show my lacking logic.
*bump*
11/3/2004 6:53:15 PM
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Your Naim Heer
109 Photos
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11/10/2004 5:04:26 PM
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ivyspice
1 Photos
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I know this is an old pic, but I'm not the one who bumped it, so I'm just gonna comment. I am against abortions, with an exception for some cases - a girl is raped and becomes pregnant or when incest occurs. Decide about it what you wish, but it is medically proven that unborn children feel pain at 20 weeks gestation, some studies are currently proving that the unborn may feel pain as early as 9 weeks; it is already clear that the fetus responds to touch from 5 and 1/2 weeks after conception. I may be arguing with just myself here, but I know that facts and also the affects that abortion causes. If you don't want it, don't kill it; either protect yourself while having sex or give it up for adoption. Adoption is a great way to give yourself and your child the life they deserve.
11/10/2004 5:35:17 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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You have to upload the picture first
11/10/2004 6:37:40 PM
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ATLDrtybird7
17 Photos
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i think the war on drugs is total crap. I don't give a shit if people kill themselves ODing, I don't care if they spend all their money on drugs... let them do what they want, but it should come at a cost... they can never be eligable for health insurrance. Every medical procedure they have done (and you know there will be a lot of them) they should have to fit their own bill... I should not have to pay higher premiums because dumbasses want to piss away their life on drugs...
11/10/2004 8:29:12 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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I dont know if I agree with you.
It isnt like all druggies are these stupid people who just want to get high all the time.
I have seen and known some very intelligent people get sucked into the world of drugs and struggle with it.
They need help just like anyone else.
11/10/2004 8:33:57 PM
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ATLDrtybird7
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they have the right to mess themselves up... that is their decision... however, they should not be allowed to inflict harm on others. That is the role government should play.
As far as getting help goes, they can get all the help they want, as long as they can pay for it. They did this to themselves, nobody forced them to do it. I say let them do what makes them happy as long as it doesnt hurt anyone else. They can kill themselves for all i care, but the minute they harm someone else, they are going down. The government should not meddle in issues like these, but they should also deny insurrance to substance abusers... that way we all get what we want. They get to be high as much as they want, and my premiums stay low. Perfect solution .gif)
oh, and it will also save the government some money by not running those stupid anti-drug ads.
[Edited by ATLDrtybird7 on 11/10/2004 3:49:23 PM. Reason for edit: i had something else to add, but i lost it]
11/10/2004 8:48:10 PM
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ATLDrtybird7
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oh, yes... it will also help with population control. and if people straighten themselves out, it will be because they wanted to, not because uncle sam made them.
11/10/2004 8:50:17 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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People that get in a car accident because they are speeding shouldn't get medical treatment unless they pay for it themselves.
I mean, it was their choice to speed. Let them bleed to death.
Believe me, I have little sympathy for people who do drugs and continue to do them without remorse. But there are people who truly want to quit and become clean and become a contributiing member of society.
Those people we should help.
Just like there are women who have gotten pregnant because they have slept around.
We shouldnt say screw them and let them have an abortion or have to deal with the kid themselves. there are organizations like the Crisis Pregnancy Center that help women who have made mistakes and who want to do the right thing but need help.
11/10/2004 8:52:46 PM
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ATLDrtybird7
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i see your humanitarian point of view, and it makes sense... but i must rule with an iron fist maybe those who are serious about recovering and stay clean for an extended period of time would be able to apply for some kind of insurrance, but they still have to pay more than those who don't meddle in self destructive hobbies.
11/10/2004 9:04:56 PM
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HairyBearChaos
37 Photos
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okay, nathan and mike and all the other conservatives on this thread...
i've completely seen what you mean and i am now pro-life. who wants to go bomb some clinics?
11/10/2004 9:07:12 PM
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Justferfun
7 Photos
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I'll grab the C4!!!!
11/10/2004 9:20:46 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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This is a serious thread people!
Jess dan ben you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Now let me get back to my point ...
11/10/2004 9:24:10 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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you are pretty dumb arent you dan
11/10/2004 9:27:03 PM
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ATLDrtybird7
17 Photos
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i dont want to bomb clinics... although, i am in the mood to blow something up. Besides, i dont want to get chunks of aborted baby on me...
11/10/2004 9:28:36 PM
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acurtiss
73 Photos
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Nathan not everything is so Black and White,
I hope that you never end up having to eat your words.
I always thought the idea behind being Christian is making
the right choice because your beliefs and faith are strong.
How can people test their faith if all their choices are controled?
Government should help peoples life be more enjoyable not control morals, leave that to religion.
11/10/2004 9:30:21 PM
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Justferfun
7 Photos
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^^^ best picture evAr.
11/10/2004 9:30:49 PM
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Justferfun
7 Photos
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What is with the "I hope you never have to eat your own words" thing?
11/10/2004 9:35:33 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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acurtiss, I would like to get into the whle idea of Christianity and exaclty what role sin plays in it.
For instance, 1 Corinthians 10:23. But I doubt that you have studied the Bible enough to know any of the writings of Paul and his writings about sin and how it exists with the Christian faith(if you have then I apologize for assuming wrong).
and dan ...
I'd like to introduce you to my friend sarcasm.
I don't believe you two have met.
[Edited by nathansym on 11/10/2004 4:39:16 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
11/10/2004 9:38:18 PM
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acurtiss
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I hope that Nathan never ends up in a jam where he is speeding and has an accident, then he becomes addicted to drugs
because of an injury, and then in a drug induced incient gets a girl pregnant and she is told her child may have down syndrome or threaten her life while giving birth. There are so many other sinarios(?) not everything is black and white, thats all.
11/10/2004 9:47:05 PM
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acurtiss
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I have studied the bible some and used to go to church a lot
but now I am waiting for a new religion that isn't so hypocritical
and embodies the higher power that I believe to be truth
11/10/2004 9:51:21 PM
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Justferfun
7 Photos
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Maybe you should read the context of what he said. He was using sarcasm in favor of the speeding driver, and he supports aiding those who get addicted to drugs.
11/10/2004 9:52:15 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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acurtiss doesnt have to talk about me in the third person.
I'm right here.
It's like I just said 15 minutes ago that I know people that have gotten hooked on drugs and I think the government should help them out.
Thanks for not reading and assuming I believe one way.
Ignorance is bliss isnt it.
And I hope that my mbaby doesnt have downs syndrome.
But if it does, I wont kill it.
Just like I wouldnt kill a baby with a congenital heart defect.
And if it threatens the mother's life, that is a whole different story.
Also, said that before.
Thanks again for going down the ignorance trail and assuming I believe something.
It really is easier that way.
BTW ... why do you hate jews?
I hope one of your relatives never marries a Jew ... then you will realize everything isnt black and white
*scenarios
11/10/2004 9:53:43 PM
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acurtiss
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My point is that things are not black and white, thats all.
I think that is the furthest from ignorance you can get.
I don't hate anybody???
11/10/2004 9:57:01 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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Well you dont have to make up someone's beliefs to state your point.
I realize that not everything is black and white.
If you spent two minutes to read what I write you would understand that.
As for ignorance ...
Again, if you would have read what I wrote you would have realized I was talking about your willing ignorance to not know or care what I believe but project the beliefs you want me to have onto me so that you can say you hope I learn my lesson.
Believe it or not, I have been put in tough situations *gasp*
And they have strangthened my beliefs.
I dont know why I'm typing this.
You will probably read the first and last words and say I want anyone with an STD put to death.
11/10/2004 10:01:19 PM
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acurtiss
73 Photos
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Man u r stubborn, rock on.
I read it and I said I hope you NEVER have to eat your own words,
Ignorance is bliss, read it right.
Isn't that annoying..
11/10/2004 10:06:21 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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Yeah ... you say you hope I never have to eat my words.
As in my words are saying that I will ALWAYS DO ONE THING NO MATER WHAT.
as in, the mother's life doesnt matter.
As in, I said that PEOPLE WHO ARE ON DRUGS SHOUDL RECIEVE NO HELP AND ROT IN THEIR OWN VOMIT.
Intelligence IS bliss.
11/10/2004 10:08:41 PM
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acurtiss
73 Photos
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Like I said, rock on Stubborn Stan, can I call u that please. lol
11/10/2004 10:10:59 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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Yes ... yes you can
[Edited by nathansym on 11/10/2004 8:20:12 PM. Reason for edit: .:.]
11/11/2004 1:18:10 AM
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Your Naim Heer
109 Photos
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ok. lets try this again
Read these and think again mother fucker. babies feel pain at 7 weeks after conception and start using their brain at 40 days after conception. more than likely, your mother didn't even know she was pregnant that early!
11/12/2004 4:50:58 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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Did you just call me a motherfucker?
11/12/2004 5:03:07 PM
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Your Naim Heer
109 Photos
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not at all. i was calling anyone that thinks abortion is the right way to go a motherfucker. i strongly feel that it is murder which is against the law in the USA, and i don't believe this b/c i am religious. i beleive this b/c murder is taking the life of an innocent. that baby did not cause its mother to get pregnant. when you have sex, you deal with the conciquences yourself. they shouldn't take it out on an innocent human being who had nothing to do with their bad choice.
[Edited by Your Naim Heer on 11/12/2004 1:58:45 PM. Reason for edit: b/c i suck at typing]
11/12/2004 6:57:25 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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gotcha
agreed
11/12/2004 7:35:54 PM
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Your Naim Heer
109 Photos
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why thank you very much. and thank you for putting that picture up! it changed my boyfriend's mind about abortion. he was disgusted when he saw it!
11/13/2004 12:29:13 AM
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acurtiss
73 Photos
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That picture made my boyfriend never want to have kids,damm it Stan...jk
11/13/2004 2:11:10 AM
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tampacheercoach
62 Photos
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"i strongly feel that it is murder which is against the law in the USA, and i don't believe this b/c i am religious. i beleive this b/c murder is taking the life of an innocent. that baby did not cause its mother to get pregnant. when you have sex, you deal with the conciquences yourself. they shouldn't take it out on an innocent human being who had nothing to do with their bad choice."
The law must not agree with you, because abortions are still legal. Just because there are people who dont share your beliefs doesnt mean we are motherfuckers or anything else. Its just a matter of a difference of opinion. Also.......Consequences
11/13/2004 5:20:35 AM
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Justferfun
7 Photos
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Well then Gay Marriage should remain illegal, because it is illegal.
Most flawed logic.....evAr.
11/13/2004 5:25:57 AM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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Yeah cheercoach .... it was once legal for a white man to OWN a black man.
THE LAW MUST AGREE WITH YOU SLAVES!
11/13/2004 8:21:12 AM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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.
[Edited by nathansym on 1/10/2005 9:16:32 AM. Reason for edit: .:.]
1/10/2005 1:42:47 PM
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Trillian
234 Photos
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idealism vs. realism: the battle continues
1/10/2005 3:18:50 PM
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ivyspice
1 Photos
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I am Pro-Life. I have a choose life license plate on my car, blah blah blah. And I'll repost my point of view:
I am against abortions, with an exception for some cases - a girl is raped and becomes pregnant or when incest occurs. Decide about it what you wish, but it is medically proven that unborn children feel pain at 20 weeks gestation, some studies are currently proving that the unborn may feel pain as early as 9 weeks; it is already clear that the fetus responds to touch from 5 and 1/2 weeks after conception. I may be arguing with just myself here, but I know that facts and also the affects that abortion causes. If you don't want it, don't kill it; either protect yourself while having sex or give it up for adoption. Adoption is a great way to give yourself and your child the life they deserve.
1/10/2005 3:35:15 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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If we aborted all cases of incest Tennessee would cease to exist.
1/10/2005 5:26:55 PM
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sundoll-arwhore
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^wtf? LOL
1/10/2005 6:44:22 PM
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Brugger
44 Photos
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a funny yet true line i heard once...
i dedicate this to those who get pregnant and cannot support the child:
"It's time to close your legs and open a book."
1/10/2005 9:25:26 PM
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burnsinat0r
81 Photos
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quote :
If we aborted all cases of incest Tennessee would cease to exist. |
all the better
1/11/2005 1:13:10 AM
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BlBby80
23 Photos
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I agreee with Nathan 100%, all abortions should be illegal no matter what the circumstances. If that baby wasn't supposed to live then the mother will have a miscArriage. Adoption is always and apotion and there are hundreds of couples out there looking to adopt everyday....some people would pay thousnds upon thousands of dollars for them to have a child...if you don't want the baby they would be given that chance...but, What happens, happens and yes I am religious but I don't go around forcing my beliefs on everyone.. if my mother believed in abortions I wouldn't be here because she was only sixteen...I was also born three months early and in turn spent three months in the neonatal intensive care unit hooked up to wires just like that baby on the left...I was born two pounds seven ounces and dropped to one pound the next day....and that was eighteen years ago and I am still alive....think of what they can do for preemies now!
2/6/2005 6:47:26 PM
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CrazyPills69
146 Photos
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^I'm thinking.........
2/6/2005 8:31:32 PM
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Kf4zra
110 Photos
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i like to eat cheese
2/6/2005 11:05:11 PM
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Osteor
65 Photos
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Why does any of this matter?
Meems, just cause he has guns doesnt mean he kills people with them, cmon now your smarter than that.
[Edited by Osteor on 2/6/2005 6:23:35 PM. Reason for edit: .]
2/6/2005 11:22:33 PM
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Osteor
65 Photos
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I also think this Naim Heer girl is dumb. For the record. haha
[Edited by Osteor on 2/6/2005 6:27:27 PM. Reason for edit: .]
2/6/2005 11:25:32 PM
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Osteor
65 Photos
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Hey I got an idea lets all stop arguing and go hug a fetus. Im making the 'hug a fetus' t-shirts tonight.
2/6/2005 11:28:47 PM
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Osteor
65 Photos
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P.S. by hugging I mean aborting with a coat hanger.
2/6/2005 11:30:30 PM
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Osteor
65 Photos
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Saving up porn to make a big comeback on usfbs, what else?
Honestly though, Ive been busy and it's funny that as soon as I stop coming here on a regular basis I now have A's in all my classes.
2/7/2005 1:19:16 AM
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Kf4zra
110 Photos
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quote :
Elmer I find it funny how you are against abortion but have more guns than anyone I know. |
cmon now, elm3r has nothing on me
i find it ironic that people believe that if the girl wants to abort, and the guy wants to keep the kid, the girl gets to abort, no probs. however, if the girl wants to keep it, and the guy wants her to abort, he is an asshole. plus he has to pay for the kid for years.
really why does anyone care what anyone else thinks on this topic? thats a decision for a couple in this situation to make.
2/7/2005 5:15:45 AM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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I believe in abortion in certain cases of Ectopic pregnancy when the mother's life is in imminent danger, yes.
But that is not what the abortion issue is about, is it?
2/7/2005 5:47:41 AM
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Justferfun
7 Photos
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ah yes, the monthly abortion bump, how nice.
2/7/2005 6:00:24 AM
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Osteor
65 Photos
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I think a lot of people on this site werent done when they came out. We should put em back in for another 3 years or so til they're ripe. Then squirt the little shit back out into the world.
2/7/2005 6:55:23 AM
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rmacolin
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nathan, this picture has been commented on a lot so im not going to get into the reasons why im pro life since it has been explained. i just wanted to say im glad u put it up b/c people have to see the truth, even when it is upsetting. if u changed one persons mind then this picture was a blessing. children are so precious and it is refreshing to see someone in a liberal atmosphere fighting for what they believe in. i give you major points for that.
3/17/2005 3:40:01 AM
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Justferfun
7 Photos
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like clockwork!
3/17/2005 6:42:54 AM
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Lysander
1 Photos
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quote :
nathan, this picture has been commented on a lot so im not going to get into the reasons why im pro life since it has been explained. i just wanted to say im glad u put it up b/c people have to see the truth, even when it is upsetting. if u changed one persons mind then this picture was a blessing. children are so precious and it is refreshing to see someone in a liberal atmosphere fighting for what they believe in. i give you major points for that. |
OBGYN clinics should have bins of coat hangars at the exits.
3/17/2005 6:44:17 AM
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vyran
41 Photos
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Killing babies after they're born is much more fun. You get to hear them cry.
3/17/2005 10:04:44 PM
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ssloves
1 Photos
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quote :
Meems
2029 Posts
Honestly, if you agree to fuck you should agree beforehand what to do if pregnancy occurs.
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i 2nd that
3/28/2005 4:53:38 AM
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Kike44
97 Photos
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just wanted to say hi
5/25/2005 6:59:54 AM
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CrazyPills69
146 Photos
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quote :
152 Posts
nathan, this picture has been commented on a lot so im not going to get into the reasons why im pro life since it has been explained. i just wanted to say im glad u put it up b/c people have to see the truth, even when it is upsetting. if u changed one persons mind then this picture was a blessing. children are so precious and it is refreshing to see someone in a liberal atmosphere fighting for what they believe in. i give you major points for that.
3/16/2005 10:40:01 PM |
i like your i's. Now abort yourself.
See Total Recall.
[Edited by CrazyPills69 on 5/25/2005 2:15:44 AM. Reason for edit: "liberal atmosphere"? Christ.]
5/25/2005 7:14:42 AM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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I don't get it.
5/25/2005 1:21:18 PM
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Osteor
65 Photos
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People taking away other people's rights should be illegal. If you want to scramble your baby's brains and queef him out that's the two partners decision, noone elses. Anyone that tells them what they should or shouldn't do for any reason, including religious reasons, should take their head out of their ass and realize you can't decide for everyone. Taking away rights like this is only taking another step towards having govermental control over every aspect of our lives. I know for fucking sure I don't want people telling me I can't abort an unthinking, lifeless blob of prehuman, when I sure as shit dont see myself as being fit to raise a kid at the age and place I am at. Maybe if more dumb shit high school kids used birth control and actually gave a shit, this wouldn't piss me off so fucking much. I dont know how many dumb pregnant sluts I saw back in high school but it's fucking rediculous. Imho no high school student can be a good parent no matter what they have to say. Mentally, money wise, job wise, your just not ready. All you people that want to make decisions for everyone else, you can go ahead and abort yourselves. I wont care.
6/4/2005 9:09:05 AM
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jessecurry
293 Photos
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I think that there are many problems with your statement.
The decision isn't given to the two partners, the decision is given to the woman. You seem so upset about rights being taken away, but don't mention that when women speak of reproductive rights they have already removed yours. I think that the reproductive rights really come into play before conception, before intercourse even. Women on this side go on and on saying "my body, my choice" but they fail to mention that they had a choice before having sex* once a woman becomes pregnant shouldn't the father have a choice as well? If men were capable of giving birth to a child then I could see the fairness in given woman full reproductive control, but as it is women need to realize that because of their physical make-up they play a specific role in reproduction. I don't see what is wrong with expecting women to behave in a manner that corresponds to their nature.
I would be much more accepting of people performing abortions themselves rather than having the abortions in clinics. As I stated earlier in the Soapbox section, I think that abortion is far to often used as a means to escape responsibility. If people couldn't get a "safe" abortion maybe they would think twice before having unprotected sex.
And those "dumb shit high school kids" are at the age where they can have children, the only reasons that they would be considered unfit parents are purely societal.
We unfortunately live in a society that values capital over all else, we've developed a reliance on others and have lost the ability to fend for ourselves. We have built a society that makes the cultivation and hunting of the means to one's own survival almost impossible. At what age do you think that people were having children 200 years ago? What was wrong with people of that age having children then?
*yes I am aware of rape and would be more accepting of the abortion of a fetus conceived during a rape
6/4/2005 1:45:42 PM
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jessecurry
293 Photos
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Sorry I just saw:
quote :
Not only does it fuck up your body for nine months, but some things are permanent. Like stretch marks and things like that. |
You've got to be fucking kidding me...this has to be the most idiotic statement that I've heard come out of someone's mouth all year. Stretch marks!?!?! What the fuck, I can't believe that you would actually consider denying a man the right to have his child live just so you didn't get stretch marks. Come on now, how fucking vain are you? I'm usually pretty laid back, but seeing something so inane actually verbalized just floored me. I seriously hope that stretch marks was just the first thing that came to mind in a long list of permanent effects. You really can't be this big of a moron.
And as far as you agreeing on what to do in case of a pregnancy before sex how about this:
IF YOU HAVE SEX YOU COULD GET PREGNANT AND HAVE A BABY! IF YOU DON'T WANT A BABY, DON'T HAVE SEX!
And while I'm being an asshole why would I see:
quote :
Elmer I find it funny how you are against abortion but have more guns than anyone I know. |
What the FUCK do these two statements have to do with each other? Abortion and guns are totally unrelated, unless someone is performing abortions with guns.
Holy shit! I just realized that these two inane comments came from the same source. WTF, did you wake up and decide that you would be a fountain of shit for this thread? Since ignorance and a need to argue couldn't have precipitated your abortion/guns comment, there must be someone out there performing abortions with guns... maybe we could have an 83 trimester abortion to help you out, or would that be too late term?
PS- Meems, I don't have anything personally against you, I don't even know you, or anything about you other than the comments that I saw today. I realize that some of these comments were made 4 months ago and understand that ignorance is only temporary. I don't mean to attack you as a person, just your thoughts on this issue.
6/4/2005 2:05:29 PM
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SmackTalker
15 Photos
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Thats the saddest thing I have ever seen! poor baby.
2/12/2006 11:56:25 PM
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nathansym
2 Photos
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I agree
4/14/2006 12:44:08 AM
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CallMeEleanor
131 Photos
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Woah hi, Nathan.
4/14/2006 12:05:49 PM
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PickledFish
185 Photos
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bump!
4/23/2007 4:48:50 AM
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SuperKpill
73 Photos
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lol, this thread is pretty controversial.
4/23/2007 6:34:36 AM
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shchmue
21 Photos
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WHOA WAIT NO THE MORNING AFTER PILL DESTROYS A ZYGOTE I THOUGHT LIFE BEGAN AT CONCEPTION
7/31/2007 7:53:10 AM
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.